Comments on: Who Killed Christ? (Answering the critics part 1) http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/ Website for Darin Hufford author of The Misunderstood God Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:28:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: George http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-196 George Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:43:38 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-196 The only way to serve God is in spirit and truth. The only example we have for that spiritual walk is Christ himself. What did he do with his life to live a spiritual life? Then go and do likewise. Each of us has our own spiritual walk with God that we need to take within Jesus as our light to guide us down the path of human darkness. Not to say that being human equates to living in the dark, but rather that being human means we are born into sin that leads us away from God. Sin itself is not alive, we, as sinners, bring it into existence through our sinful ways. “To live is Christ” means to live in Christ is to live as Christ. If we do not we are not living a spiritual life. For Christ was like God in everything he did and said, so to be like Christ is to be like God. Hence, "The kingdom of heaven is upon you." "May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." To live a spiritual life on earth is to live as you are living in heaven. Therefore we bring the kingdom to earth through our life in Christ, unless we forget he is our example of how to live on earth. This is what he meant by new wine in an old wine skin. Consider the life you lived before Christ as old wine, your flesh the old wine skin, and a life in Christ as the new wine. If you are not serious about your spiritual life in Christ then the new wine will just leak through the old wine skin and be wasted. But if you are serious about a spiritual life in Christ, then the new wine will remain in the new wine skin, made so through grace and none of it will be wasted. Remember, we are still reminded to carry out good deeds in faith. Scripture tells us that faith without works/good deeds is dead. But we must also remember that God is always looking for the willing heart that does such things. Give with a cheerful heart, remember? We still need to carry out the good deeds that our Father wants us to do. He wants us to be him to everyone else in doing so we live a spiritual life before him. So, to live is Christ is to live as Christ, to live as Christ is to live as God. To live as God is to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth which brings us to, “May your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven.” We are the heirs to the kingdom of heaven and our Father wants us to live on earth as if we are already there. Showing our power and authority not to men, but to the one he removed from heaven for rebelling against him and creating the original sin that he brought to earth with him. So love your Father with all that is you, love your neighbor as yourself, and listen to your brother Jesus and all will go well with you. The only way to serve God is in spirit and truth. The only example we have for that spiritual walk is Christ himself. What did he do with his life to live a spiritual life? Then go and do likewise. Each of us has our own spiritual walk with God that we need to take within Jesus as our light to guide us down the path of human darkness. Not to say that being human equates to living in the dark, but rather that being human means we are born into sin that leads us away from God. Sin itself is not alive, we, as sinners, bring it into existence through our sinful ways. “To live is Christ” means to live in Christ is to live as Christ. If we do not we are not living a spiritual life. For Christ was like God in everything he did and said, so to be like Christ is to be like God. Hence, “The kingdom of heaven is upon you.” “May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” To live a spiritual life on earth is to live as you are living in heaven. Therefore we bring the kingdom to earth through our life in Christ, unless we forget he is our example of how to live on earth. This is what he meant by new wine in an old wine skin. Consider the life you lived before Christ as old wine, your flesh the old wine skin, and a life in Christ as the new wine. If you are not serious about your spiritual life in Christ then the new wine will just leak through the old wine skin and be wasted. But if you are serious about a spiritual life in Christ, then the new wine will remain in the new wine skin, made so through grace and none of it will be wasted. Remember, we are still reminded to carry out good deeds in faith. Scripture tells us that faith without works/good deeds is dead. But we must also remember that God is always looking for the willing heart that does such things. Give with a cheerful heart, remember? We still need to carry out the good deeds that our Father wants us to do. He wants us to be him to everyone else in doing so we live a spiritual life before him. So, to live is Christ is to live as Christ, to live as Christ is to live as God. To live as God is to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth which brings us to, “May your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven.” We are the heirs to the kingdom of heaven and our Father wants us to live on earth as if we are already there. Showing our power and authority not to men, but to the one he removed from heaven for rebelling against him and creating the original sin that he brought to earth with him. So love your Father with all that is you, love your neighbor as yourself, and listen to your brother Jesus and all will go well with you.

]]> By: Jos Hoebe http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-183 Jos Hoebe Tue, 15 Jun 2010 09:38:26 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-183 I have not read your book, but love these discussions. Sin explained as just missing the mark is too easy. When you want to hit the mark with your arrow, when you are learning archery it is evident you will miss most of the time. Probably you´ll hit the mark by change, but missing will be the normal thing. So when you learn you goanna make mistakes. That is how we learn. So then there is no sin. Sin, to me, is missing the mark deliberately. The sinner knows he sins. This is called cardinal sin, but that is making a hierarchy of sin. There is only one kind of sin: deliberate sin and that´s cardinal indeed. Translated from Dutch “cardinal sin” is called: “Death sin”. In it is seen what it really means: by deliberately sinning you are dying. To yourself. And by that to God. Because you are yourself God. When I sin I make myself death to my creation. Death to what I would and could be. By sinning I am stiffening me, my world and all my possibilities. By sinning I ran out of what is possible. And there comes wishdom and wisdom in. And forgiveness. Sin is not deliberately possible; deliberately seen as consciously aware. Every sinner is unconscious to what (s)he really is doing. Because when the sinner really (consciously) would know; (s)he couldn´t do it. The wishdom of every sinner is also towards that what the sinner sees as the right way to get creation done. But wishdom without wisdom is wishdumm. So every sinner is forgiven, because (s)he really doesn´t know what (s)he is doing. (S)he is learning. To hit the mark. And in Love, in God, you may learn, and learn and learn, and you may make any mistake possible. And when you have learned, and, so mastered, you can only make mistakes by being unconscious. And learning to be consciously aware is yet another kind of learning. I do thank God to make all this possible. That´s a real gift: from freedumm to freedom. In love, Jos I have not read your book, but love these discussions.
Sin explained as just missing the mark is too easy.
When you want to hit the mark with your arrow, when you are learning archery it is evident you will miss most of the time. Probably you´ll hit the mark by change, but missing will be the normal thing.
So when you learn you goanna make mistakes. That is how we learn.
So then there is no sin.

Sin, to me, is missing the mark deliberately.
The sinner knows he sins.
This is called cardinal sin, but that is making a hierarchy of sin.
There is only one kind of sin: deliberate sin and that´s cardinal indeed.
Translated from Dutch “cardinal sin” is called: “Death sin”.
In it is seen what it really means: by deliberately sinning you are dying. To yourself. And by that to God. Because you are yourself God.
When I sin I make myself death to my creation.
Death to what I would and could be.
By sinning I am stiffening me, my world and all my possibilities.
By sinning I ran out of what is possible.

And there comes wishdom and wisdom in.
And forgiveness.
Sin is not deliberately possible; deliberately seen as consciously aware.
Every sinner is unconscious to what (s)he really is doing.
Because when the sinner really (consciously) would know; (s)he couldn´t do it.
The wishdom of every sinner is also towards that what the sinner sees as the right way to get creation done. But wishdom without wisdom is wishdumm.
So every sinner is forgiven, because (s)he really doesn´t know what (s)he is doing.
(S)he is learning.
To hit the mark.
And in Love, in God, you may learn, and learn and learn, and you may make any mistake possible.
And when you have learned, and, so mastered, you can only make mistakes by being unconscious.
And learning to be consciously aware is yet another kind of learning.

I do thank God to make all this possible.
That´s a real gift: from freedumm to freedom.

In love,

Jos

]]> By: Joanne http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-176 Joanne Sat, 15 May 2010 14:35:25 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-176 I totally agree. Great post! I totally agree. Great post!

]]> By: Darin Hufford http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-175 Darin Hufford Sat, 15 May 2010 04:06:35 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-175 Well, I can think of about six million reasons why we should argue over whether or not it was God or sin that killed Jesus. The biggest being that if it was God as most modern day Christians have been taught, that makes people about a thousand times less likely to give God their heart in relationship. They'll do what ever they need to do in order to make it to heaven but they won't open their hearts to intimacy with a God like that. It's an extremely significant conversation!!!! I kind of get the feeling Michele that you didn't read the book, "The Misunderstood God" did you? I could be wrong, but I have a feeling I'm right in this. Well, I can think of about six million reasons why we should argue over whether or not it was God or sin that killed Jesus. The biggest being that if it was God as most modern day Christians have been taught, that makes people about a thousand times less likely to give God their heart in relationship. They’ll do what ever they need to do in order to make it to heaven but they won’t open their hearts to intimacy with a God like that. It’s an extremely significant conversation!!!!

I kind of get the feeling Michele that you didn’t read the book, “The Misunderstood God” did you? I could be wrong, but I have a feeling I’m right in this.

]]> By: michele http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-174 michele Sat, 15 May 2010 02:07:44 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-174 The issue and resolution of how God would redeem man (considering the possibility that he would sin) was worked out long before the foundation of the world was ever laid. God is holy. He prescribed solutions for His people (in the Old Testament) to be brought back into proper relationship with Him, through blood sacrifice. Jesus offered Himself long before people were ever created. I was never taught that God was so enraged with sin that He killed His Own Son! I am sorry that you were taught that, Darin. That was a lie. Jesus overcame sin and death - He has given us the power to overcome it as well. He removed it's ability to steal, kill and destroy us - it's our choice as to whether or not we will avail ourselves of His victory. Why argue over whether it was God or sin that killed Jesus? The fact remains that if we abide in Him; under the shadow of the Almighty God, the enemy cannot touch us. The issue and resolution of how God would redeem man (considering the possibility that he would sin) was worked out long before the foundation of the world was ever laid. God is holy. He prescribed solutions for His people (in the Old Testament) to be brought back into proper relationship with Him, through blood sacrifice. Jesus offered Himself long before people were ever created. I was never taught that God was so enraged with sin that He killed His Own Son! I am sorry that you were taught that, Darin. That was a lie. Jesus overcame sin and death – He has given us the power to overcome it as well. He removed it’s ability to steal, kill and destroy us – it’s our choice as to whether or not we will avail ourselves of His victory. Why argue over whether it was God or sin that killed Jesus? The fact remains that if we abide in Him; under the shadow of the Almighty God, the enemy cannot touch us.

]]> By: Debbie S http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-167 Debbie S Fri, 23 Apr 2010 02:40:43 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-167 Lisa, first I want to say I hope you are well, and praise God for getting you out of an abusive environment. Hang on to God's hand. He will never leave you or forsake you! As to the topic; here's how I see it: Death is the natural RESULT of sin, it's not an arbitrary price that God decided he would flog us with if we broke His rule. We still today have the same choice Adam & Eve had in the Garden: We must decide to choose to feed upon he fruit of the Tree of Life (Jesus) or the fruit of The Knowledge of Good and Evil (self). God did NOT DEMAND that we choose The Tree of Life, "OR ELSE I'LL KILL YOU!!!" He said if we eat of the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil, "You will surely die." He did NOT say "...I'll kill you." No, He pleaded with Adam and Eve to make the right choice, as he pleads with us to choose the Tree of Life, because He loves us to distraction, and He knows that the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil (self) is FATAL POISON, and He knows that the NATURAL RESULT of fatal poison is a slow, painful process that naturally ends in death. So, from before we were ever made, His plan has been to be our antidote, our medicine, to allow us before we die the opportunity to turn from our wrong choice (Self/the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) before the poison consumes us and turn back to Him (the Tree of Life) and allow His death and resurrection to completely heal us of the damage the poison caused. The truth is NOBODY killed Christ. He GAVE His life for us. And even better, He took it up again for us. Lisa, first I want to say I hope you are well, and praise God for getting you out of an abusive environment. Hang on to God’s hand. He will never leave you or forsake you!

As to the topic; here’s how I see it: Death is the natural RESULT of sin, it’s not an arbitrary price that God decided he would flog us with if we broke His rule. We still today have the same choice Adam & Eve had in the Garden: We must decide to choose to feed upon he fruit of the Tree of Life (Jesus) or the fruit of The Knowledge of Good and Evil (self). God did NOT DEMAND that we choose The Tree of Life, “OR ELSE I’LL KILL YOU!!!” He said if we eat of the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil, “You will surely die.” He did NOT say “…I’ll kill you.” No, He pleaded with Adam and Eve to make the right choice, as he pleads with us to choose the Tree of Life, because He loves us to distraction, and He knows that the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil (self) is FATAL POISON, and He knows that the NATURAL RESULT of fatal poison is a slow, painful process that naturally ends in death. So, from before we were ever made, His plan has been to be our antidote, our medicine, to allow us before we die the opportunity to turn from our wrong choice (Self/the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) before the poison consumes us and turn back to Him (the Tree of Life) and allow His death and resurrection to completely heal us of the damage the poison caused. The truth is NOBODY killed Christ. He GAVE His life for us. And even better, He took it up again for us.

]]> By: B May http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-165 B May Fri, 23 Apr 2010 00:40:45 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-165 I believe the confusion comes in because it is God who places the curse of death upon Adam and Eve when they fall to sin. It is God who cannot accept a sinner into His presence and God who allowed Jesus to die. (Jesus allowed Himself to be killed as well of course, but any of the Holy Trinity could have saved Him.) Understanding why God cannot tolerate sin may help clear the confusion too. I believe the confusion comes in because it is God who places the curse of death upon Adam and Eve when they fall to sin. It is God who cannot accept a sinner into His presence and God who allowed Jesus to die. (Jesus allowed Himself to be killed as well of course, but any of the Holy Trinity could have saved Him.) Understanding why God cannot tolerate sin may help clear the confusion too.

]]> By: ed cintron http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-158 ed cintron Sun, 04 Apr 2010 18:31:55 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-158 WOW!that makes perfect sense to me!the god of this world(2cor.4:4)satan the author creator of sin would demand something like that.and be within his rights since adam turned over the "deed"to him.whew! WOW!that makes perfect sense to me!the god of this world(2cor.4:4)satan the author creator of sin would demand something like that.and be within his rights since adam turned over the “deed”to him.whew!

]]> By: Lisa http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-142 Lisa Fri, 05 Mar 2010 12:40:26 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-142 Just finished your book and it has changed my life. I just got away from a small fellowship where my husband was pastor. Accountability and wifely submission were BIG factors there. And works, works, works. I finally called 911 because my husband physically abused me in front of my daughters and the fellowship rallied support around him! Your book, above all else, re-emphasized to me what I believe is the main point of the Bible...God loves ME not because of what I can do, but because of WHO HE IS. "God. Is. Love." Just finished your book and it has changed my life. I just got away from a small fellowship where my husband was pastor. Accountability and wifely submission were BIG factors there. And works, works, works. I finally called 911 because my husband physically abused me in front of my daughters and the fellowship rallied support around him! Your book, above all else, re-emphasized to me what I believe is the main point of the Bible…God loves ME not because of what I can do, but because of WHO HE IS. “God. Is. Love.”

]]> By: Angie http://themisunderstoodgod.com/2009/12/28/who-killed-christ-answering-the-critics-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-141 Angie Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:26:51 +0000 http://themisunderstoodgod.com/?p=179#comment-141 Wow...thought provoking. :) I'm at the point in my walk where I don't agree with someone just because they say it, but if you can give me something to "chew on" (aka "meat" in the Bible), I appreciate it. If God's Spirit is in me and with me, He will sort it all out.....as I seek Him.... :) So, thank you! Wow…thought provoking. :) I’m at the point in my walk where I don’t agree with someone just because they say it, but if you can give me something to “chew on” (aka “meat” in the Bible), I appreciate it. If God’s Spirit is in me and with me, He will sort it all out…..as I seek Him…. :) So, thank you!

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